Used Lab Equipment

Features and Benefits

• Transfers take place in as little as 15–60 min
• Minimal buffer requirements save money
• Capacity to transfer up to four Mini-PROTEAN precast or handcast gels, or three Criterion gels
• Single-step locking system allows simple, speedy setup
• Platinum-coated titanium anode plate electrodes and stainless-steel cathode plate electrodes provide consistent and reliable transfers, durability, and long life
• Extra plastic templates required by other semi-dry blotters to prevent electrode short circuits are unnecessary
• Safety cover breaks the electrical current when lifted, preventing electrical shock

Applications and Uses

• Western blotting
• Nucleic acid transfer
• Northern and Southern blot transfers in 10–35 min
• Transfer of DNA and RNA using the unique agarose gel semi-dry blotting support frame

Features:

• Maximum gel size (W x L), cm: 24 x 16
• Buffer requirement, ml: 200
• Gel capacity: 4 Mini-PROTEAN precast or handcast gels, 3 Criterion gels, 1–3 PROTEAN II gel sandwiches
• Recommended power supply: PowerPac HC (High Current)
• Dimensions (W x L x H), cm: 37 x 24 x 11
• Weight, kg/lb: 3.6/7.9

The new Vi-CELL Series Cell Viability Analyzers provide an automatic and cost effective means to perform the trypan blue dye exclusion method. This data is essential to the decision making process for basic tissue culture cell passage and maintaining optimum culture conditions in bioreactors. Cell and tissue culture applications in life science research, including recombinant protein and biopharmaceutical production, require the accuracy, precision and automation available only in the Vi-CELL cell viability analyzer.

The Vi-CELL automates the widely accepted trypan blue cell exclusion method. Historically, cell viability determinations were performed manually using a light microscope and hemacytometer. This technique has major shortcomings due to subjective determination of cell count, as well as manual, time consuming steps. In comparison to the manual technique, the Vi-CELL automatically performs the trypan blue with video imaging of the flow-through cell. Results are obtained in minutes.

Includes:

• Computer w/ Software
• Monitor
• Manuals

Product Features:

• Automation of the standard trypan blue assay
• % Viability
• Total cell concentration
• Total viable cell concentration
• Mean cell size
• Real time cellular images
• Bioprocess monitoring
• Validated reagents
• Convenient reagent pack

 Specifications:

• Analysis Time: < 2.5 min
• Capacity: Single or 12 position via autoloader
• Concentration Range: 5 x 10^4 to 1 x 10^7 cells/mL
• Counting Accuracy: ± 6%
• Depth: 41 cm (16 in)
• Digitizing Resolution: 1394 x 1040
• Height: 44.5 cm (17.5 in)
• Imaging Technology: Auto-focus CCD array, Firewire camera
• Instrument Type: Video image through a quartz flow cell
• Overall Analysis Range: Size Range: 2 µm - 70 µm
• Sample Volume: 0.5 mL
• Temperature: 10°C to 40°C (50°F to 104°F)
• Viability Range: 0 to 100%
• Weight: 11.3 kg (25 lb)
• Width: 38 cm (15 in)

The new Vi-CELL Series Cell Viability Analyzers provide an automatic and cost effective means to perform the trypan blue dye exclusion method. This data is essential to the decision making process for basic tissue culture cell passage and maintaining optimum culture conditions in bioreactors. Cell and tissue culture applications in life science research, including recombinant protein and biopharmaceutical production, require the accuracy, precision and automation available only in the Vi-CELL cell viability analyzer.

The Vi-CELL automates the widely accepted trypan blue cell exclusion method. Historically, cell viability determinations were performed manually using a light microscope and hemacytometer. This technique has major shortcomings due to subjective determination of cell count, as well as manual, time consuming steps. In comparison to the manual technique, the Vi-CELL automatically performs the trypan blue with video imaging of the flow-through cell. Results are obtained in minutes.

Includes:

• Computer w/ Software
• Monitor
• Manuals

Product Features:

• Automation of the standard trypan blue assay
• % Viability
• Total cell concentration
• Total viable cell concentration
• Mean cell size
• Real time cellular images
• Bioprocess monitoring
• Validated reagents
• Convenient reagent pack

 Specifications:

• Analysis Time: < 2.5 min
• Capacity: Single or 12 position via autoloader
• Concentration Range: 5 x 10^4 to 1 x 10^7 cells/mL
• Counting Accuracy: ± 6%
• Depth: 41 cm (16 in)
• Digitizing Resolution: 1394 x 1040
• Height: 44.5 cm (17.5 in)
• Imaging Technology: Auto-focus CCD array, Firewire camera
• Instrument Type: Video image through a quartz flow cell
• Overall Analysis Range: Size Range: 2 µm - 70 µm
• Sample Volume: 0.5 mL
• Temperature: 10°C to 40°C (50°F to 104°F)
• Viability Range: 0 to 100%
• Weight: 11.3 kg (25 lb)
• Width: 38 cm (15 in)

The new Vi-CELL Series Cell Viability Analyzers provide an automatic and cost effective means to perform the trypan blue dye exclusion method. This data is essential to the decision making process for basic tissue culture cell passage and maintaining optimum culture conditions in bioreactors. Cell and tissue culture applications in life science research, including recombinant protein and biopharmaceutical production, require the accuracy, precision and automation available only in the Vi-CELL cell viability analyzer.

The Vi-CELL automates the widely accepted trypan blue cell exclusion method. Historically, cell viability determinations were performed manually using a light microscope and hemacytometer. This technique has major shortcomings due to subjective determination of cell count, as well as manual, time consuming steps. In comparison to the manual technique, the Vi-CELL automatically performs the trypan blue with video imaging of the flow-through cell. Results are obtained in minutes.

Includes:

• Computer w/ Software
• Monitor
• Manuals

Product Features:

• Automation of the standard trypan blue assay
• % Viability
• Total cell concentration
• Total viable cell concentration
• Mean cell size
• Real time cellular images
• Bioprocess monitoring
• Validated reagents
• Convenient reagent pack

 The Vi-CELL XR offers additional benefits over the S and AS Models:

• Extended size range to 2 microns, allowing additional analyses of yeast, and smaller cells.
• Increased sample throughput with greater efficiency.
• Reduced sample volume results in less reagent use.
• Auto focus capability increases instrument ease of use.
• Variable aspiration and mixing cycles optimize results.
• Enhanced image magnification provides unparalleled cellular detail.
• Circularity measurement helps isolate debris from cells.

 Specifications:

• Analysis Time: < 2.5 min
• Capacity: Single or 12 position via autoloader
• Concentration Range: 5 x 10^4 to 1 x 10^7 cells/mL
• Counting Accuracy: ± 6%
• Depth: 41 cm (16 in)
• Digitizing Resolution: 1394 x 1040
• Height: 44.5 cm (17.5 in)
• Imaging Technology: Auto-focus CCD array, Firewire camera
• Instrument Type: Video image through a quartz flow cell
• Overall Analysis Range: Size Range: 2 µm - 70 µm
• Sample Volume: 0.5 mL
• Temperature: 10°C to 40°C (50°F to 104°F)
• Viability Range: 0 to 100%
• Weight: 11.3 kg (25 lb)
• Width: 38 cm (15 in)

The new Vi-CELL Series Cell Viability Analyzers provide an automatic and cost effective means to perform the trypan blue dye exclusion method. This data is essential to the decision making process for basic tissue culture cell passage and maintaining optimum culture conditions in bioreactors. Cell and tissue culture applications in life science research, including recombinant protein and biopharmaceutical production, require the accuracy, precision and automation available only in the Vi-CELL cell viability analyzer.

The Vi-CELL automates the widely accepted trypan blue cell exclusion method. Historically, cell viability determinations were performed manually using a light microscope and hemacytometer. This technique has major shortcomings due to subjective determination of cell count, as well as manual, time consuming steps. In comparison to the manual technique, the Vi-CELL automatically performs the trypan blue with video imaging of the flow-through cell. Results are obtained in minutes.

Includes:

• Computer w/ Software
• Monitor
• Manuals

Product Features:

• Automation of the standard trypan blue assay
• % Viability
• Total cell concentration
• Total viable cell concentration
• Mean cell size
• Real time cellular images
• Bioprocess monitoring
• Validated reagents
• Convenient reagent pack

 The Vi-CELL XR offers additional benefits over the S and AS Models:

• Extended size range to 2 microns, allowing additional analyses of yeast, and smaller cells.
• Increased sample throughput with greater efficiency.
• Reduced sample volume results in less reagent use.
• Auto focus capability increases instrument ease of use.
• Variable aspiration and mixing cycles optimize results.
• Enhanced image magnification provides unparalleled cellular detail.
• Circularity measurement helps isolate debris from cells.

 Specifications:

• Analysis Time: < 2.5 min
• Capacity: Single or 12 position via autoloader
• Concentration Range: 5 x 10^4 to 1 x 10^7 cells/mL
• Counting Accuracy: ± 6%
• Depth: 41 cm (16 in)
• Digitizing Resolution: 1394 x 1040
• Height: 44.5 cm (17.5 in)
• Imaging Technology: Auto-focus CCD array, Firewire camera
• Instrument Type: Video image through a quartz flow cell
• Overall Analysis Range: Size Range: 2 µm - 70 µm
• Sample Volume: 0.5 mL
• Temperature: 10°C to 40°C (50°F to 104°F)
• Viability Range: 0 to 100%
• Weight: 11.3 kg (25 lb)
• Width: 38 cm (15 in)

Specifications:

• Volume: 5-100 mL

Description:

• Bottle Positions: 10   
• Dimensions (L x D x H): 73 cm x 32 cm x 37 cm
• Bottle Speed: .01 To 4 rpm    
• Clearance Between Decks For Bottle Placement: 134 mm   
• Usable Roller Length: 28 cm   
• Electrical Rating: 115 +/- 10 VAC @ 60 Hz Line Voltage 1.0 Amp @ 115 V, 60 Hz Power Consumption   
• Environmental Conditions: Indoor Use, Pollution Degree 24-50 Degree C, Relative Humidity 0-90%, Non-condensing
• Fits inside bellco benchtop incubators  
• Accepts bellco glass & plastic roller bottles both 110 & 120 mm diameter up to 28 cm overall length   
• All Position Drive   
• Variable Speed Range    
• Analog Tachometer
• Cat#: 7630-S0019
• 9 decks, 5 spots per deck

Description:

These cost-effective vertical laminar flow and horizontal laminar flow workstations feature the Clean-Ceil fan filter module, which utilizes a HEPA filter that is 99.99% efficient for all particles >=0.3µm. The workstations may be used as either benchtop or console units. They incorporate a modular design approach that allows the user to customize a workstation by choosing the optional accessories necessary to meet individual requirements. The workstations come complete with aluminum support frame, clear Plexiglas side panels, 40% efficient ASHRAE-rated prefilter, white plastic laminate back panel (vertical model only, filter is on top), or clear Plexiglas top panel (horizontal model only, filter is on back).

Specifications:

• Dimensions (D x H x W): 21” x 22” x 46”
• Electrical: 115 V, 60 Hz
• Air velocity: 90 ±20 fpm

Includes PM From BD and Guaranteed Installable under BD Service Contract

Upgraded to IIu and Added Violet laser in 2014

The new BD FACSAria II cell sorter improves ease of use, flexibility, and aseptic capability to make it the best choice for consistent results in sorting across a broad range of applications. The heart of this cell sorting revolution is the true fixed-alignment flow cell, gel-coupled to the collection optics. Fixed alignment minimizes startup time and improves reproducibility. Gel coupling to the objective lens improves collection efficiency and increases the sensitivity and resolution needed for multicolor applications.

The BD FACSAria II cell sorter advances cell sorting with multiple improvements. A new fluidics design improves aseptic setup and cleaning. New nozzle sizes enable a wide range of particles to be sorted. Software improvements dramatically cut the time spent on cytometer setup, adjustment, and maintenance.

The BD FACSAria II cell sorter also sets a new standard for ease of use to improve both workflow and productivity. A new nozzle design allows for reproducible insertions. A new universal sort tube collection mount makes it easier to insert and remove tube holders. Software wizards and automation simplify aseptic sort setup, drop-delay determination, and clog detection. Compatibility with BD digital analyzers makes it easier to move from analysis to cell sorting.

Includes:

• 3 lasers
• Blue 7PMTs, Red 3PMTs, Violet 3 PMTs
• Computer w/ FACSDiva 8 Software
• ACDU
• 2 monitors
• Fluidics Cart

• Temperature Control
• Lauda Chiller

Performance

Fluorescence Sensitivity

• Measurements performed at 70 psi and 90 kHz using SPHERO Rainbow Calibration Particles (RCP-30-5A)
• FITC: 125 molecules of equivalent soluble fluorochrome (MESF-FITC)
• PE: 125 molecules of equivalent soluble fluorochrome (MESF-PE)

Fluorescence Resolution

• Coefficient of variation (CV)
• PI: Area, <3.0%, full G0/G1 peak for propidium iodide (PI)-stained chicken erythrocyte nuclei (CEN)
• Hoechst: Area, <3.5%, full G0/G1 peak for Hoechst-stained CEN

Fluorescence Linearity

• Doublet/singlet ratio:
• CEN stained with PI: 1.95–2.05 (off the 488-nm laser) or Hoechst: 1.95–2.05 (off the 405-nm laser)

Forward and Side Scatter Sensitivity

• Sensitivity enables separation of fixed platelets from noise, identification of bacteria, and detection of 0.5-micron beads.

Forward and Side Scatter Resolution

• Scatter performance is optimized for resolving lymphocytes, monocytes, and granulocytes.

Sample Acquisition Rate

• Maximum acquisition rate (events per second) with 12 compensation pairs and 8 parameters: 70,000.

Includes PM From BD and Guaranteed Installable under BD Service Contract

New Flow Cell installed in September 2018

Also included are the excitation laser lines, laser powers and optical configuration.

The new BD FACSAria IIu cell sorter improves ease of use, flexibility, and aseptic capability to make it the best choice for consistent results in sorting across a broad range of applications. The heart of this cell sorting revolution is the true fixed-alignment flow cell, gel-coupled to the collection optics. Fixed alignment minimizes startup time and improves reproducibility. Gel coupling to the objective lens improves collection efficiency and increases the sensitivity and resolution needed for multicolor applications.

The BD FACSAria IIu cell sorter advances cell sorting with multiple improvements. A new fluidics design improves aseptic setup and cleaning. New nozzle sizes enable a wide range of particles to be sorted. Software improvements dramatically cut the time spent on cytometer setup, adjustment, and maintenance.

The BD FACSAria IIu cell sorter also sets a new standard for ease of use to improve both workflow and productivity. A new nozzle design allows for reproducible insertions. A new universal sort tube collection mount makes it easier to insert and remove tube holders. Software wizards and automation simplify aseptic sort setup, drop-delay determination, and clog detection. Compatibility with BD digital analyzers makes it easier to move from analysis to cellsorting.

Includes:

• 4 lasers (375nm, 488nm, 405nm, 633nm)
• Blue 7PMTs, Red 3PMTs, Violet 3PMTs
• HP Computer w/ FACSDiva 8.0 Software
• ACDU
• 1 HP monitor
• Fluidics Cart
• Temperature Control
• Lauda Chiller
• Buffalo Whisper Aerosol Control
• Under BD service contract since installed in 2012

Performance

Fluorescence Sensitivity

• Measurements performed at 70 psi and 90 kHz using SPHERO Rainbow Calibration Particles (RCP-30-5A)
• FITC: 125 molecules of equivalent soluble fluorochrome (MESF-FITC)
• PE: 125 molecules of equivalent soluble fluorochrome (MESF-PE)

Fluorescence Resolution

• Coefficient of variation (CV)
• PI: Area, <3.0%, full G0/G1 peak for propidium iodide (PI)-stained chicken erythrocyte nuclei (CEN)
• Hoechst: Area, <3.5%, full G0/G1 peak for Hoechst-stained CEN

Fluorescence Linearity

• Doublet/singlet ratio:
• CEN stained with PI: 1.95–2.05 (off the 488-nm laser) or Hoechst: 1.95–2.05 (off the 405-nm laser)

Forward and Side Scatter Sensitivity

• Sensitivity enables separation of fixed platelets from noise, identification of bacteria, and detection of 0.5-micron beads.

Forward and Side Scatter Resolution

• Scatter performance is optimized for resolving lymphocytes, monocytes, and granulocytes.

Sample Acquisition Rate

• Maximum acquisition rate (events per second) with 12 compensation pairs and 8 parameters: 70,000.

Features and Benefits

• Transfers take place in as little as 15–60 min
• Minimal buffer requirements save money
• Capacity to transfer up to four Mini-PROTEAN precast or handcast gels, or three Criterion gels
• Single-step locking system allows simple, speedy setup
• Platinum-coated titanium anode plate electrodes and stainless-steel cathode plate electrodes provide consistent and reliable transfers, durability, and long life
• Extra plastic templates required by other semi-dry blotters to prevent electrode short circuits are unnecessary
• Safety cover breaks the electrical current when lifted, preventing electrical shock

Applications and Uses

• Western blotting
• Nucleic acid transfer
• Northern and Southern blot transfers in 10–35 min
• Transfer of DNA and RNA using the unique agarose gel semi-dry blotting support frame

Features:

• Maximum gel size (W x L), cm: 24 x 16
• Buffer requirement, ml: 200
• Gel capacity: 4 Mini-PROTEAN precast or handcast gels, 3 Criterion gels, 1–3 PROTEAN II gel sandwiches
• Recommended power supply: PowerPac HC (High Current)
• Dimensions (W x L x H), cm: 37 x 24 x 11
• Weight, kg/lb: 3.6/7.9

 The Agilent 1100 HPLC G1321A Fluorescence Detector brings high-sensitivity and selection through simultaneous multi-wavelength detection. This easy-to-use detector provides quantitative data and fluorescence spectra from a single run. The FD's spectral information can be used for rapid method optimization and verification of separation quality.

Specifications:

• Dimensions: 5 x 13.5 x 17 in
• Weight:5 lbs
• Environment:0 to 40°C at <95% humidity
• Performance:10 fg Anthracene, Ex=250 nm, Em=400 nm*
• Performance:RAMAN (H2O) > 200 (FLF rev A)
• Performance:RAMAN (H2O) > 400 (FLF rev >A)
• Performance:Ex=350 nm, Em=397 nm, dark value 450 nm, standard flow cell time constant=4 seconds (8 seconds response time)
• Pulse Frequency:296Hz (single signal mode), 74Hz (spectral mode)
• Excitation Monochromator Range:200 nm - 700 nm
• Excitation Monochromator Bandwidth:20 nm
• Emission Monochromator Range:280 nm - 900 nm
• Emission Monochromator Bandwidth:20 nm
• Spectrum Acquisition Scan Speed:28 ms/datapoint
• Wavelength Characteristic Repeatability:+/- 0.2 nm
• Wavelength Characteristic Accuracy: +/- 3 nm
• Flow cells: 8 uL (standard) and 20 bar (2MPa) pressure maximum

Optimized sensitivity and selectivity, for reliable quantitative and qualitative information

The Agilent 1100 Series fluorescence detector provides high-sensitivity multisignal detection, online fluorescence spectra, straightforward Operation and maintenance, and built-in features for GLP compliance.

• Simplified optical design for optimized baseline stability.
• Long-life Xenon lamp for highest sensitivity.
• Variable-mode monochromators for selective multisignal detection and online spectra acquisition.
• Easy front access to flow cell for fast inspection or exchange.

Specifications

• Detection type:  Multisignal fluorescence detector with rapid online scanning capabilities and spectral data analysis
• Performance:  10 fg anthracene LOD, Ex 250 nm, Em 400 nm*, Raman (H20) >400 Ex 350 nm, Em 397 nm, dark value 450 nm, standard flow cell
• Light source: Xenon flash lamp, normal mode (20W) and economy mode (5W)
• Pulse frequency: 296 Hz for signal mode, 74 Hz for economy mode
• Excitation monochromator: Concave holographic grating, F/1.6, blaze 300 nm, range 200—700 nm and zero-order, bandwidth 20 nm
• Emission monochromator: Concave holographic grating, F/1.6, blaze 400 nm, range 280—900 nm and zero-order, bandwidth 20 nm
• Reference system: Inline excitation measurement
• Time programing: Up to 4 signals, response time, PMT gain, baseline behaviour (append, free, zero), spectral parameters
• Spectral acquisition: Excitation or emission spectra, scan speed 28 ms per datapoint, e.g. 0.6 s per spectrum 200—400 nm, 10 nm step
• Step size: 1—20 nm
• Spectra storage: Limited only by disk space
• Wavelength repeatability: ±0.2 nm
• Wavelength accuracy: ±3 nm
• Flow cells: Standard: 8 µl volume, 20 bar (2 MPa) pressure maximum, quartz
• Control and data evaluation: Agilent ChemStation for HPLC or Agilent 1100 Series control module with limited spectral data analysis and printing of spectra
• Analog outputs: Recorder/integrator: 100 mV or 1 V, output range >102 luminescence units, 2 outputs
• Communications: Controller-area network (CAN), HP-IB, RS-232C, LAN, APG Remote: ready, start, stop and shut-down signals
• Safety and maintenance: Extensive diagnostics, error detection and display (through control module and ChemStation), leak detection, safe leak handling, leak output signal for shutdown of pumping system. Low voltages in major maintenance areas.

Specifications:

• Detection type: 1024-element photodiode array
• Light source: Deuterium and tungsten lamps
• Wavelength range: 190 – 950 nm
• Short term noise (ASTM) Single and Multi-Wavelength: ± 1 × 10-5AU at 254 and 750 nm
• Drift: 2 × 10-3AU/hr at 254 nm
• Linear absorbance Range: 2 AU (upper limit)
• Wavelength accuracy: ± 1 nm
• Wavelength bunching: 1 – 400 nm
• Slit width: 1, 2, 4 , 8, 16 nm
• Diode width: < 1 nm
• Flow cells
  • Standard: 13 µl volume, 10 mm cell path length and 120 bar (1760 psi) pressure maximum
  • Semi-Micro: 5 µl volume, 6 mm cell path length and 120 bar (1760 psi) pressure maximum
  • High pressure: 1.7 µl volume, 6 mm cellpath length and 400 bar (5880 psi) pressure maximum
  • 500 nano: 0.5 µl volume, 10 mm cell path length and 50 bar (725 psi) pressure maximum
• Control and data Evaluation: Agilent ChemStation for LC
• Analog outputs: Recorder/integrator: 100 mV or 1 V, output range 0.001 – 2 AU, two outputs
• Communications: Controller-area network (CAN), GPIB, RS-232C, APG Remote: ready, start, stop and shut-down signals, LAN optional
• Safety and maintenance: Extensive diagnostics, error detection and display (through control module and ChemStation), leak detection, safe leak handling, leak output signal for shutdown of pumping system. Low voltages in major maintenance areas.
• GLP features: Early maintenance feedback (EMF) for continuous tracking of instrument usage in terms of lamp burn time with user-settable limits and feedback messages. Electronic records of maintenance and errors. Verification of wavelength accuracy with built-in holmium oxide filter

Can be sold as an individual component or as part of a complete stack

Specifications:

• Detection type: 1024-element photodiode array
• Light source: Deuterium and tungsten lamps
• Wavelength range: 190 – 950 nm
• Short term noise (ASTM) Single and Multi-Wavelength: ± 1 × 10-5AU at 254 and 750 nm
• Drift: 2 × 10-3AU/hr at 254 nm
• Linear absorbance Range: 2 AU (upper limit)
• Wavelength accuracy: ± 1 nm
• Wavelength bunching: 1 – 400 nm
• Slit width: 1, 2, 4 , 8, 16 nm
• Diode width: < 1 nm
• Flow cells
  • Standard: 13 µl volume, 10 mm cell path length and 120 bar (1760 psi) pressure maximum
  • Semi-Micro: 5 µl volume, 6 mm cell path length and 120 bar (1760 psi) pressure maximum
  • High pressure: 1.7 µl volume, 6 mm cellpath length and 400 bar (5880 psi) pressure maximum
  • 500 nano: 0.5 µl volume, 10 mm cell path length and 50 bar (725 psi) pressure maximum
• Control and data Evaluation: Agilent ChemStation for LC
• Analog outputs: Recorder/integrator: 100 mV or 1 V, output range 0.001 – 2 AU, two outputs
• Communications: Controller-area network (CAN), GPIB, RS-232C, APG Remote: ready, start, stop and shut-down signals, LAN optional
• Safety and maintenance: Extensive diagnostics, error detection and display (through control module and ChemStation), leak detection, safe leak handling, leak output signal for shutdown of pumping system. Low voltages in major maintenance areas.
• GLP features: Early maintenance feedback (EMF) for continuous tracking of instrument usage in terms of lamp burn time with user-settable limits and feedback messages. Electronic records of maintenance and errors. Verification of wavelength accuracy with built-in holmium oxide filter

Can be sold as an individual component or as part of a complete stack